How to Thrive in a Hybrid Working Environment

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Andrea Palten: Hi, I’m Andrea Palten and I’m the host of this episode. With a worldwide pandemic, social movements, and a rapid tech advancement there have been just so many changes that we’re maybe confused about how to do business today or were challenged on how to go forward.  So today we have Sharon Hart and Robbie Green and they’re going to talk to us about hybrid working. We’ll discuss the current situation and the future of what the organizations will look like, and what the organization’s challenges are, and what the solutions can be. So, let’s get started. Sharon and Robbie thank you so much for being here. I want to know more about what you do so, could you give us a little introduction about yourself. Robbie, we’ll start with you.

Robbie Green: Sure thing. I’m Robbie Green and I’m an Executive Coach for Talking Talent. So, my very specific lane is working with working parents. It’s my pleasure to do it almost every single day. Really, in particular, I work with a lot of working moms, and so this topic is a big discussion these days for a lot of the women that I am currently coaching on a one-to-one basis.

Andrea Palten: Sharon, can you tell us a little bit about what you do.

Sharon Hart: Sure. I’m Sharon Hart. I’m an Executive Coach here at Talking Talent as well, and like Robbie, I have an area of focus here at Talking Talent with women in leadership. So, I’m just so honored and privileged to be able to work with so many dynamic women in group coaching and in one-to-one coaching, and certainly, as we move into hybrid there are a lot of questions about how management can support employees and teams, as we figure out what this new world will look like. Happy to be here.

Andrea Palten: Yeah. Yeah. So, hybrid working has been around for a very, very long time, but it’s really become a buzzword in 2020 and 2021. So, Sharon before we even get started on talking about it, can you give us a little bit of a definition of what is hybrid working.

Sharon Hart: Sure. It’s kind of a new one in this circumstance because we are moving into many organizations where the majority of organizations are moving toward a hybrid model. So, that would be part of the employee population at work part-time, possibly more than part-time, some folks full-time at home back and forth trading schedules. So, some people might be in a few days a week, half days, and other people might be there full-time. So, it is a bit of a mystery when it will all shake out to look like, but some variety of having some of our team at home and some of our team at work, possibly on alternating days.

Andrea Palten: Yeah. So, what are the benefits of hybrid working? Should organizations get behind this and what are the benefits? Robbie, if you have some input on that, that’d be great.

Robbie Green: I would love to jump in on this one. For a lot of new moms, let’s just think about it for a second. So, you’ve had a COVID baby, you’ve got a baby who you’ve had while you’ve been working while at home and I like to say it like that because when you say, oh, I get to work from home sounds like a such a luxury. But you’re literally working while at home, while everything is staring you in the face that you could be doing.

So, a lot of these mothers have not even had the experience of having to get a baby ready and pack a bag and get the bottles and the foods and all the hundred things that have to leave the house with the baby. Take the baby across town to daycare now come back and start to work. They haven’t had to do that yet. So, all of that will be new for them if, in fact, they have to go back into the office. So, a huge benefit for a lot of working mothers is to be able to continue. To be home with their babies, where they can get up and take breaks and go and see about the baby. Some of them are still breastfeeding. That’s a huge benefit, they don’t have to carve out time and space at an office to be able to go pump if they’re still doing that. So, that’s just the convenience of it all is a huge benefit for a lot of working mothers and working dads as well too because they’re there to help to support. So, just not having to pick the baby up and take it somewhere is a huge benefit.

Andrea Palten: For sure. So, Sharon, Robbie touched upon what’s the benefit for working parents or employees in general. What about their organizations? Do they have any benefits of being a hybrid working organization?

Sharon Hart: Right. So, I love what Robbie said about the flexibility for parents and I think that that holds true for managers as well. We know that when our employees and our teams have the support that they need that we’re actually getting more of their productivity. They are actually more productive. So, the conversations that have happened over the past year with managers is to be able to have those candid and open communication moments with their team to ask what is it that you need to support your unique situation. What we’re finding is not just closer relationships because of the communication but there’s also this sense of I feel like I can get more done on more of my schedule rather than having to go to a cadence. At the same time, there’s also this idea of having smaller groups in the office to be maybe more focused with one another, if you have smaller teams. So, if it can be coordinated in the right way, it can be a huge benefit for individuals and for teams.

Andrea Palten: Yeah. Yeah. So, one of the things that I hear people say is that they’re worried about if they’re doing hybrid working. They’re not in the office Monday through Friday, they’re not getting face time with their managers and their leaders. People are worried there’s going to be lack of career progression. There is going to be a lack of getting promoted because they don’t have that one-on-one time all the time. Are you seeing organizations address this?

Robbie Green: It’s definitely a concern for employees, and so I encourage people to get clarification on that. Let me circle back. One thing that we need to be aware of is that we are all wired for human connection which means we are meant to be in the presence of other human beings. So, the fact that we aren’t. is causing us to have thoughts, feelings, physical ailments that we’re not used to experiencing. So now it’s making us think about a lot of things to your point. Do they see me enough? And I do want to know. Who’s thinking about me? If they don’t see me at the office, will they remember me when it’s promotion time? So, this is a real thought on people’s minds, I encourage people just to be transparent, and when they have one on one time with their management make sure that’s on a recurring basis even if you the employee have to initiate this time.

When you do, that your manager can look forward to seeing Sharon every Thursday at two o’clock to review what she’s working on, and then Sharon can take the opportunity, and say thanks for taking this time with me here’s what I’ve been doing. Also, here’s how you can best support me in my career right now. Be clear and transparent with them. Let them know what your aspirations are. Let them know where you aspire to be and then say to them does that path, have to look like it’s normally looked since times are so different now. We used to be able to have to go this way, this way, this way. Is it possible that I could go like this, this and this and then up? So, transparency is best. You’re right, it’s a real thing, people are concerned about that.

Andrea Palten: What about organizations? There’s a lot of talks that organizations have a little bit of fear of the hybrid working model. Some of them want to go all remote, some of them want to go back to normal, the way it was. Some go in the middle with a hybrid working. So, what’s the number one fear or concern that organizations have about this model?

Sharon Hart: I think what I’m hearing a lot of is just the management of so many different feelings and so many different priorities from their teams, from their employees, and also the changing world. So, we’ve seen even in the last couple of weeks, things have changed. So, keeping up with what people are feeling and into Robbie’s point that transparency, that communication is where we really see organizations and leaders thrive and flourish and their teams feel. To be inclusive is to proactively reach out and to proactively find ways to connect and understand what the needs are of their team, their employees. So, I think the biggest fear is just, am I covering everyone, and is everyone being heard? Because we do know, especially after going through this past year and a half that there can be feelings, lack of productivity, and even as Robbie commented physical stress, mental stress when we’re not getting what we need. So, I think the fear is how do we navigate this brand-new world and make sure that everyone is getting the formula, the combination, and the needs that they have to be met in this new situation.

Andrea Palten: Yeah, one thing everything everybody had to kind of do the same thing. We all had to go into the office whether we’re introverted or extroverted liked it or didn’t and now we have these choices. So, people are jumping ship, they are leaving organizations where they’re not getting these choices. So, I just see how hard it is for many of these organizations to all of a sudden change fast, because it wasn’t like a slow change. This was a fast change. That’s from one day to the other, especially in March 2020. How can these organizations make hybrid work a reality, and how can they roll it out so they’re successful?

Sharon Hart: Well, I think… Go ahead, Robbie. You go on.

Robbie Green: I was just going to say to Sharon’s point just a second ago people need to be seen and heard just like Sharon said. People have to be heard, and I don’t think that making it a whole blanket statement for a company is the best approach. We have to be concerned with what I like to call PLC instead of TLC, people’s levels of comfort, personal levels of comfort. People have different levels of comfort, especially in the circumstances with these viruses that we’re facing these days, some people feel more comfortable and others. They’re in different situations. Some people may be single, they come home there’s nobody there to bring a possible virus onto or they could be home with a new baby or young children or aging parents. So, the situations are different and each individual needs to be heard in these particular times. I think it’s really why it’s so important what we do as an organization to help people see outside of themselves. Because let’s be honest, the company has an agenda as they should. They’re working on what they should be producing for the company. Sometimes it’s hard for them to see and hear every individual. So, when we as coaches come in and are able to talk to these people on a more relaxed and individual level and then inform companies of running things. I think they’re better able to make decisions on what is this for us to roll out this new hybrid environment. Should we decide or should we let our employees decide what they would like to do?

Sharon Hart: I love that, Robbie. I’m doing exactly what you said, and you took the words right out of my mouth perfectly. I was going to say that, and I love that and the word that came up for me is flexibility, being agile, being flexible. I love that PLC; I wrote it down. Loved it

Robbie Green: Yeah, personal levels of comfort. It is different for every person. We have to consider that as Andrea said it’s not the same. It is not the same anymore. It is not the same and if managers are not being proactive to do it, I encourage employees to be proactive to ask. The answer is always no if you never ask. If you’ve got a six-week baby at home, six weeks old and you plan to go back to work after three months or even six months but you’re thinking, I really. don’t want to have to go back to work after three months if I don’t have to. I have been nice and productive here at home. Nobody’s been hounding me for anything. I’m getting all the work done, everything’s fine, why do I really need to go back. Then there are some people that are saying, I really miss running into my co-workers in the hallway, and when I can go back into the office a couple of days a week that’s really refreshing for me, and it helps to fill my cup back up. So, finding out what people need on an individual basis is key.

Andrea Palten: Yeah. Yeah. I just read in the news that GitHub and Degreed put out this really robust manifesto of hybrid working. Both of those companies are very much more into the remote type of working and this manifesto was like what does it look like? What do you need? How can we help you? Why is this beneficial? Who do you go to? And it was really thorough. My question to you, and this is probably more your opinion than your knowledge since this is new. Are they too fast putting the stake in the ground and having this manifesto because we’re now just getting back into this environment or do you think that’s a good thing to be ahead of everything and just making sure like okay, I just want you to know as an organization, we got our stuff together and we put together a manifesto so now you know exactly where you stand. So, I’d love your opinion on that.

Sharon Hart: I love that. I think it’s great.

Robbie Green: I do too Sharon. What are your thoughts, Sharon? What’s your opinion?

Sharon Hart: Yeah, my opinion is leading by example. People want a captain of the ship in these kinds of situations we have a crisis, we have something we’re not sure about. We’re feeling maybe inside a little insecure, a little pensive a little maybe fearful, and anxiety. It’s really nice to have leadership step up like that. I hadn’t heard that Andrea and I’m glad you brought it up. I really like it. I think it’s a good thing.

Robbie Green: I think it is too. It goes along with expectations and expectations are a two-way street, so you have to go to people that you are responsible to and find out what they expect from you. But you have to be proactive as a human being to say here’s what you can expect of me in this situation. People like clarity, they really do like it, but we are so reluctant sometimes to ask questions that can clean things up just that quick. People are sitting around going I don’t know. Well, I would love to work from home, but they might think this, and we will make up this whole movie in our minds of how people are going to respond and it’s not necessarily the case. They’re not thinking about each individual person that hard, whether you think that’s good or bad because it’s too many people to think about. That’s why if you don’t start to be an advocate for yourself first you can’t bring anybody else on your advocate train with you. You’ve got to be the captain of the advocate train. Yeah, you have to.  You’ve got to have that cause for sure.

Andrea Palten: Okay. So, company A decided okay, we’re going to do hybrid working and we’re going to get started on August 1st. How should they rebuild the culture and the relationships as the people return to the office? Some people were hired during COVID. They never met anyone; they’ve never even been in the office. Some people have been there for 10 years, and they already have their relationships built and probably kept them during COVID. Some people maybe were outsiders. So, now we’re starting from scratch. So how do organizations rebuild that culture and relationships?

Robbie Green: As a matter of fact, I had a coachee who is new in her position and the company, and she’s very concerned about establishing relationships. She’s like what should I do? And I said you need to consider all things. So, this is on an individual basis Andrea I have to say. People are thinking about so much already so when it comes to establishing these relationships, you have to consider all the things. If you’re the new girl on the block and companies have to think about this too. You’re more concerned with is establishing relationships than people who are already established. So, that might be more on your mind than it is on other people’s minds. Then find out from an individual basis was out there. So, for the company, I think they need to be more forthcoming in probably sharing what they consider too much information than not. To say, hey we have a kudo board that’s available to everybody.

Share all your wins there, or we would love to see pictures of your family, whatever the case may be to get acquainted with new people. It’s going to take some time and it’s going to be different because we’ve been doing this for like a year and a half now Okay, so it takes about on average 63 days to establish a new habit. We’re well into this new habit. Now we’ve got to go back and reestablish the way it was. It’s a little daunting. I’ll speak from personal. It’s a little unnerving to me to be out amongst a lot of people right now because I haven’t been for a while and things keep going up and down with the virus and the surging and all the things. It makes me a little anxious and so companies need to be aware of that because if I show up and now, I’m anxious because there are people around how effective am I really going to be at work. Not that effective. I’m going to be too worried about something happening.

Andrea Palten: Exactly.

Sharon Hart: That’s so true and I was just thinking as you were as you were mentioning that Robbie about this individual approach and making sure that everyone does feel comfortable. The practices, the things that we know the leadership wants to put forth they are modeling it. So, that leadership is modeling, proactively reaching out to some of those new people that are in the office and making the priority of connection and I love what you said about the board of maybe the kudos. So, getting really creative about what we can do as an organization to stay connected whether they’re at home or they’re in the office. But I think it has to come top-down or, I guess, I should say in a perfect world, the best-case scenario would be that leadership is modeling all of these behaviors, being inclusive, and having a lot of empathy for what’s going on in people’s lives. As that’s modeled, I do think it will be a process, but I think it can move along a little quicker if it’s coming from the top and being modeled.

Robbie Green: You’re right. You’re right Sharon this whole empathy thing, research shows that working mothers are thought of as incompetent. Hello, we just had a whole human being.

Sharon Hart: That’s…

Robbie Green: Of all the things right. They’re thought of that way by their peers at work, some of them. Not all of them of course, but research shows that they are. It also shows that women are much more loyal to a company when their employer cares about their life outside of work as much as they do inside work. So, if they are checking on new moms who are out on maternity leave or if they are really concerned about someone who knows that they’re struggling with some family issues, or they’ve got family health concerns. If the management is proactive and saying listen, I understand what’s happening right now. I want you to know that we are here to do X, Y & Z you are more than welcome to have a flexible schedule. Whatever proactive things they can do, or that woman speaks volumes to her and she’s like, oh, they really do care about me as a person and not just what I can produce for this company. So, that part is very important to me. It’s a real opportunity for employers right now to be able to establish this sticky type of relationship, to show this concern and care for people, and if they need help doing that’s what we are here, literally to do. To be I guess like the glue in-between and help us be more sticky. We’re the glue.

Andrea Palten: Yeah, and part of that too it’s the ROI for the actual organization. We know when you retain good quality talent, you’re going to make more money. So, the whole thing is it’s like a win, win, win situation. I just actually interviewed somebody that was coached by Talking Talent three times, three maternity leaves. She was actually wanting to quit but because of this coaching that the company gave her, she stayed. Now she’s in love with the company, she has nothing but good things to say about them because they helped her out in a trying time. She’s going to stay there for a long time, and she’s already been promoted so we’re seeing this work. So, how can organizations say okay listen to people, let’s get hybrid working? It’s what they want. I love that you said that is just that listening piece that really needs to happen.

Robbie Green: Yes.

Andrea Palten: So, let’s talk about where we’re at, the state of the people. All our emotional well-being and emotional wellness are really bad right now. We know that anxiety, panic disorders, depression, they’ve all gone up in the last year and a half. So, my question to you is how can organizations protect their workers from burnout, especially as they come back into offices, and like you said they’re not used to being around people. How can they protect them?

Sharon Hart: I think it is such a tall order because there is so much going on in the background. But I think allowing space for everyone, and I think this is part of it. I think this hybrid is really part of it, to be able to allow space to have the flexibility and design something that is going to work. I also think that you said something Andrea that is so important, about coaching and not just to the coaching horn I think Robbie mentioned it too. The clarity in which were able to articulate what we need to our leadership is a big part of this hurdle. So, I think providing space for maybe just for processing, for coaching to be able to articulate the needs and then allowing space for some of that flexibility. All of that put together can really be the differentiator for how successful people feel, how productive they are and how each culture is able to develop through this and in a positive way. I love that Robbie said this is an opportunity. I just love that. It is. Yeah.

Robbie Green: It really is and I’m thinking about companies with this whole burnout and as Sharon mentioned the perfect world. But it really only works this way if management is not on board or offering what their employees need to never enter burnout-ville. It’s all for naught. We can have as many webinars as you would like, but if you don’t accept the signs that you see in these employees as they start to burn out as the little match identifies on our slide then what’s the point. I have so many people that I talked to who are in burnout, and they say I’m so busy at work I don’t have time to do things that I would like to do. Then I’ll come back and say all right, what do you like to do. What relaxes you? What makes you happy? What would you like to find time to do? Crickets. They can’t even remember what makes them relax.

I’ve had people ask me, Robbie, could you tell us how do we relax? Literally they don’t know how to calm down from work, which is a clear sign of burnout. So, when we go back to these employers and say a lot of your employees don’t even know how to relax anymore. That means they’re at number eight on the burnout scale which says that all they have time for is work. They don’t have any time for anything outside of work. Employers need to be educated; they also need to be aware of just how serious this is. Burnout can lead you to the emergency room. It’s beyond, oh my gosh, I just had a really busy day I’m really tired today. No, it’s above and beyond that. It can cause some serious issues really quickly. So, until employers can see the seriousness of it, I can do 12 webinars a day. But if you don’t accept and internalize what is really doing to your people. How it’s affecting your company and your bottom line. How they’re producing less because they’re trying to work so much more at home and but they’re still not being productive during these eight hours. Until they can really see it, they’re just checking the box. So, we’re here to let them know no, you need to go beyond box-checking. Listen to what these people are saying. Sorry I got on a soapbox for a bit.

Sharon Hart: No, no, you’re spot on with it and you reminded me of talking about the burnout group coaching because that is where I found so many people would write back, put in the chat having my peers to talk to that makes me feel I’m not alone, lets me know I’m not alone. So, providing not just space for the individual schedule, but space to connect as a community of people. How do I relax? Someone puts in the chat a new idea, hey I tried this in COVID, and it really helped me. So, pulling ideas from others in those groups settings, we’ve gotten so much feedback that, that is where so many employees are getting their support. A ray of hope. So, I love that you brought that up because it’s impactful.

Robbie Green: Very impactful. I just did a session on How to Thrive in Work and Life. It was 250 people on that webinar and the chat just kept rolling. People releasing things. Really a lot of it was released and then to Sharon’s point, a lot of it was ideas too. Here’s what I’ve been doing. Here’s what I’ve learned to do. So, people are anxious. They need this time and so that hour where they just sit and listen is really great but it’s amazing when they can get one-to-one time with a coach where it’s just time for them. Nobody’s interrupting them, there are no phones ringing, I’m not answering any emails. This coach is here to listen to only me and help me to talk out these things that are causing me to be burned out.

It tears my heart when I do a session on burnout and people are like but how do I fix it. They’re so deep in it. They are dying for you to tell them, please just give me out of this. I have to reiterate to them. At the beginning, I do it so that they can internalize banishing burnout is an inside job. What are you willing to do? Because I can tell you all day. I’m giving you all kinds of tips and cues and all the things but until you decide I’m drawing a line in the sand; I will not be up at 1:00 am answering emails. I’ll be happy to answer them at eight o’clock. Until you draw that line in the sand, you’ll continue to ask the same questions. How do I get out? How do I get out? How do I get out? But you can get so deep in it that you don’t see that I’m still doing all the things. The importance of a coach, the importance of accountability and we need it times 100 right now with all the things that we’re dealing with. We need a little bit more handholding right now and that’s okay.

Andrea Palten: I love that advice that you’re giving to employees and workers Robbie that’s really good. I want to end with one last question to Sharon. So, Robbie just gave really great advice for the workers to speak up, to stand up for themselves, to talk to their leaders, about what they need. Sharon, my question to you is for any decision-makers that are listening and if they’re on the fence, should we go hybrid, should we not allow hybrid working. What would you tell these decision-makers?

Sharon Hart: I think there’s so much in this conversation that we just unpack that really points to the flexibility, the control, the being heard. It is something that is the new way of working, and unfortunately, we are seeing a lot of leaders lose talent because they’re not willing to go down this road. So, I mean I would love leadership to be able to consider a little more work by design from their employees through conversation, through this clarity of expression with their managers and all the while knowing this does protect the bottom line. When you have happy employees with their needs met that is where we find huge wins, big success increased productivity. So, it is in everyone’s interest that we offer options. What that looks like for your organization? I mean that’s going to be a conversation about where the priorities lie, but I really do think some flexibility offerings. After everything we’ve been through this last year, it can really be a win-win, so I say absolutely.

Andrea Palten: Awesome Thank you, Sharon, thank you, Robbie. You two have been amazing I love the advice that you’re giving and the coaching that you’re doing is so important and we’re so glad that you’re here to do that.

Sharon Hart: Thank you so much, Andrea. Thank you, Robbie.

Andrea Palten: Yeah, and thank you to all of you listening, we really appreciate you. Make sure you subscribe to this podcast so you can hear many more episodes and we’ll talk to you next week.

Robbie Green: Bye everybody.

Andrea Palten: Bye-bye.